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From Kristos Vocabulary Booster

Gary wrote:

[...]

>
> Which is worse, preaching a salvation of grace and works
> (but where even the "works" are of grace as Augustine and
> Matthew proffer), or teaching a god who is infinitely more
> evil than Satan? I'll leave the answer to you and those
> lurking.
>

First, the works you proffer are not of grace -- they are of the human
will which you claim is untimately free from God's control. They are
"of yourselves". Not only this, but your works are flatly contradicted
by Scripture. You claim that for a man to be born again that he must
first make a free will choice. But John says that the new birth is not
the result of the human will.

Second, on what basis do you claim that an absolutely sovereign God is
"infinitely more evil than Satan"?


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In article <116.36.21.05.138723000@srcbs.org>, lsenders@hotmail.com says...

>Gary McNees wrote:
>
>> The Calvinists see no error, no harm, no problem, in
>> teaching that God actually hates (savingly) most of His creatures.
>
>This is the exact same line of argumentation of those who wish to see
>an end to capital punishment. You both share in the very same
>presuppositional base.
>
>The truth of the matter is, capital punishment establishes a higher,
>not a lower, view of man. Man is so dignified, so worthy, that to
>murder a man is equally worthy of the murder to forfeit his own life.
>It is the great high value of man that necessitates captial punishment.

>Contrary the biblical position, man cannot be reformed.

Are you trying to speak like a lawyer, using the accusative absolute?
You came out with somthing that contradicts your own beliefs!

More important, if YOU were right, Christ would not have said to the
woman taken in adultery, "Go and sin no more (Jo 8:11)". Nor could He
have said this to the cured paralytic (Jo 5:14). Yet He did.

So no, the Biblical position is that man CAN be reformed. And you are
despising the words of Christ Himself to claim otherwise.

>In fact, he is already dead. "Y lived X number of years and he
>died." He died spiritually as well and his future, like that of the
>murderer (in a righteous society) is determined. When man fell, he
>inherited the second death.

No! The second death is at the end of time.

>"All men died." God was not obligated to save any. Again, as I have
>noted to Matthew elsewhere tonight, the problem is that you advance
>your argument primarily from the human vantage without recognizing
>what it does in direct ratio to the redemptive off of God.

"Direct ratio to the redemptive"? Such pretentious and nonsensical
language! Worse yet, you follow it immediately with the hilarious
solecism "off of God".

"Redemptive off of God"? What was _that_ supposed to mean? How _do_
you come up with such turgid prose? Do you use it to hide your faulty
logic even from yourself?

[snip]

[1 Cor 1:20+ quote snipped]

How ironic that you should quote this, as if it supported you! How can
you really remain unaware that YOU are among the 'strong' and the
'wise' who shall be shamed? For you imagine yourself to be strong, and
wise in Scriptures, even though in truth you do nothing but pervert
the Scriptures.

But if you _were_ really wise in Scriptures, you would feel that shame
whenever you even think if supporting "total depravity".

>Rom. 1:20 . . . so that they are without excuse.
>Rom. 3:19 . . . that every mouth may be closed

So why isn't YOUR mouth closed? Yet you keep pouring forth reams of nonsense in
this NG.


--
---------------------------
Subudcat se sibi ut haereat Deo
quidquid boni habet, tribuat illi a quo factus est.
(St. Augustine, Ser. 96)

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