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Gary McNees
> "Bart Goddard"
> news:153.23.08.05.122259000@srcbs.org...
>
> >
> >
> > gkmcnees@comcast.net wrote:
> >
> > > Calvinists claim that man is not saved "against his will."
> > > But the procedure of God regenerating them without
> > > their will is like putting one to sleep,
> >
> > No, it's just the opposite. It's like waking someone
> > up. They have expressed no will to either remain asleep
> > nor to wake. They're _asleep_; they don't have a will.
> > God wakes them up, just like He called Lazarus out of
> > the tomb.
>
> Nonsense.
>
That's a resounding rebuttal -- and it accurately describes that which
has happened to so many of us. Read C. S. Lewis if you don't believe me
or Bart. Do you have anything other scoffing to back up your objection?
> > >> I find it appalling that you say such wicked things about people
> > >> without exerting even the smallest effort to understand what
> > >> they believe, but instead make up some other things to put
> > >> into their mouths so that you can pretend you are clever when
> > >> you rebut them.
> > >
> > > You should talk! You do much worse.
> >
> > When? I don't misrepresent your position.
>
> You do incessantly.
>
No, he doesn't, Gary. I've been following the exchanges between you
two; you have trouble following him (witness the thread where you made
the mistake of thinking that Bart was talking about his view when he was
actually critiquing yours).
[...]
>
> > > The Calvinist doctrine is that God first regenerates, then
> > > the person is enabled to hear and believe the gospel.
> >
> > No, regeration IS the enabling. Regeneration is the
> > granting of faith.
>
> Regeneration is the new birth. Go back to theology one.
> Give me a single scripture which states that regeneration
> is the granting of faith.
>
Bart: 1. Gary: 0. Gary, I've pointed this out to you umpteen times.
When God touches you, you touch God. What you see as believing is
_coincident_ with the _regenerating_. But the action is _initiated_ by
God. It _is not_ initiated by man. The choice is God's, the response
is man's.
[...]
>
> "When God regenerates a human soul, when he makes us spiritually alive, we
> make choices. We believe. We have faith. WE cling to Christ. God does not
> believe for us. Faith IS NOT MONERGISTIC....
>
> In regeneration, God changes our hearts. He gives us a new disposition, a
> new inclination. He plants a desire for Christ in our hearts. We can NEVER
> TRUST Christ for our salvation unless we first desire him. This is why we
> said earlier that REGENERATION PRECEDES FAITH. Without the rebirth we have
> no desire for Christ. Without a desire for Christ we will never choose
> Christ. Therefore we conclude that BEFORE ANYONE WILL EVER BELIEVE, BEFORE
> ANYONE CAN BELIEVE, GOD MUST FIRST CHANGE THE DISPOSITION OF HIS HEART."
>
> R. C. Sproul, "Chosen By God." p. 118,119.
>
Amen. Sproul knows what he's talking about (at least soteriologically).
[...]
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