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Gary McNees wrote:

>
> Well, here we agree wholeheartedly. The notion of sovereignty taught
by
> the Calvinists makes God the author, cause, and doer of sin. That
they
> deny this is because they have no problems with illogic.
>
When I read you and other place this objection before Calvinistic
theology, I just shake my head and wonder if any of you have read
Calvin for yourselves. This is a false deduction. It is akin to a
JfW declaring that Christians are not really monotheist. It is a
complete misapprehension of the doctrine and the whole of theology.
Calvinism is not inerrant. No school of theology is. However, it best
represent the normative interpretation of scripture. It has the fewest
inconsistences. It has the most consistent system. It best adheres to
Christ's own use of the scriptures. And though there is must
appreciation of Augustine's theology, it separates itself from
Augustine in refusing to accept any of Plato's view of reality
presuppositionally. Calvinism's sola scriptura separates it self from
all forms of humanistic interpretation of what it is. It refuses the
I-it and the I-Thou dicotomy. There are no other systems which do
this.
>
> It is one thing to Permit or Allow your child to disobey you, and
quite
> another to cause them to do so. Because of their faulty anthropology,

> faulty soteriology, faulty sovereignty, they have essentially one
real
> will in the universe.
>
I don't know how else to debate this other than you haven't a clue what
Calvinism actually teaches. Beyond this, you have little appreciation
of either epistomology or hamartology as taught within the scriptures.
Nor do you exhibit an understanding of all that is involved in
antithetical, let alone presuppositional thought forms.

Calvinism teaches the biblical revelation that man is dead. His sin
incapacitates him to restore himself to his original position. Not
only that, but God cannot restore him to his original state unless a
"new man" is created / regenerated. There is no rehibilitation of the
"old man" in Calvinist / Biblical thinking.

To fail to appraise man's true nature stems from the fact that it is
not rooted in God's estimation, but rather man's own estimation.

And yes, there is "essentially one real will in the universe." He
willfully planned for angelic rebellion and for man's rebellion. This
why I continually note that there is no chance behind God. There is
nothing of a contingent nature in the Eternal Decree. Yet consciously,
does man operate under such a sovereign restraint? No. But He is the
Restrainer. He does not allow evil to step outside of its predetermine
limits. Satan had to gain permission to visit trouble upon Job. Yet
he was restrained. Did this violate Satan's free-will? Not at all.
But in turn, Satan was as much a pawn in the hand of God's sovereignty
as Joseph's brothers were or Pharaoh was. God doesn't have to pull
pupet like strings to get man to do what He wills. All He has to do is
either remove or restrict restraint.
>
> Also, do you know of an English version of Augustine's works which
> enunciate his position on free will? I looked on the net but was
unable
> to find one. I don't read Latin.
>
A meezly $30 buckeroo's will get you the "Master Christian Library" by
AGES. Not only Augustine but many many others are included in even the
introductory CD.
>
> Many Calvinists I have read quote him to support their position. But
as
> I read you, you claim that they misquote him. I'd like to get this
> straight from the Augustine mouth, as it were.
>
Calvin quotes him more than any other reference besides the Scriptures
themselves. All are footnoted and references so you can go back to the
source. But like many things Matthew writes, you will find him wrong
concerning Calvin's interpretation and application of Augustines works.
Rather, Calvin understands Augustine's synthetic mixture of Platonic
philosophy and Christian theology. He greatly removes this mixture
later in his life, but he never totally separates himself from it.

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