Daino
From Kristos Vocabulary Booster
Italian
Noun
daino m (plural daini)
Matthew emotionally ranted:
>Just as you extracted portions of his writings which _you_ believe
speak >against
>it. You are practicing a childish double-standard: when YOU do it, you
>proclaim
>it as 'proof', but when I do it, it is not
You are missing the point. I don't need to prove what Origen believed-
I just needed to prove he didn't believe in your trinity.
All I said I was going to do was present writings by the ante-Nicene
fathers that show your "three in one" formula later formulated at Nicea
was not understood nor believed. I have conclusively showed that Origen
did not believe in what became the Nicene Trinity. All I needed to do
was show contradictions in your belief that Origen believed the Nicene
Trinity.
I wrote:
> Yes, as Jesus himself said "He who
>has seen me has seen the Father". Jesus is the "exact representation"
>of God.
Matthew wrote:
>And as _exact_ representation, He must be co-eternal, even
>consubstantial.
>Anything less than that is NOT "exact representation".
Based on your faulty reasoning Jesus was not an "exact representation".
Why? The Father, God, was never in subjection and never will be- unlike
Jesus. Nobody granted the father to have "life in himself". The Father
is not the Son. The only way, based on your pedentic take, for Jesus to
be an "exact representation" is if they were identical without
deviation. ....you don't understand "exact representation"
The son is also the exact image (charaktr) of the substance of God
(ts hupostases autou).
The Greek word "charakter" here is stronger than "eikon" for all men
were made in God's image but not all men are "charakter" of God's very
being. Why? Well, certainly one reason was that only Jesus reflected
perfectly the loving, compassionate, righteous personality of his
heavenly Father, YHWH. So seeing Jesus was like "seeing the Father".
But no trinitarian I've met thinks Jesus is the Father.
"hupostasis" is used five times in the Christian Greek scriptures
2Co 9:4 -"otherwise if any Macedonians come with me and find you
unprepared, we--not to speak of you--will be put to shame by this
CONFIDENCE"
2Co 11:17 - "What I am saying, I am not saying as the Lord would, but
as in foolishness, in this CONFIDENCE of boasting."
Heb 1:3 - "And He is the radiance of His glory and the exact
representation of His nature, and upholds all things by the word of His
power. When He had made purification of sins, He sat down at the right
hand of the Majesty on high"
Heb 3:14 -"For we have become partakers of Christ, if we hold fast the
beginning of our ASSURANCE firm until the end"
Heb 11:1 - "Now faith is the assurance of things hoped for, the
conviction of things not seen"
"flawless expression of the nature of God" (Phillips), "the express
image of His person" (KJV, NKJV), "the very image of His substance"
(ASV), "the impress of His subsistence" (YLT), "[the] exact expression
of His essence" (ALT), "the true image of his substance" (BBE), "He is
an exact copy of God's nature." (ICB), "the exact reproduction of His
essence" (Wuest), "the very imprint of his being" (NAB), "the exact
imprint of God's very being" (NRSV), "everything about Him represents
God exactly" (NLT), "He is the perfect imprint and very image of
[God's] nature" (Amp), "stamped with God's Own character" (Moffatt),
"the very image (impress) of His substance" (Vincent), "the very
representation of the divine essence" (Vine)
"Exact representation" (charakter from charasso = to engrave and
source of our English word "character" which describes one of the
attributes or features that make up and distinguish an individual) was
used in classical Greek of an engraver who mints coins or an engraving
tool, a die, a stamp, a branding iron, a mark engraved, an impress or a
stamp on coins and seals. Later it came to mean the impression itself,
usually engraved, cut in, or stamped on in the form of a character, a
letter, a mark or a sign. This impression or mark with its particular
features was considered to be the exact representation of the object
whose image it bore. Charakter is a die made by an impress, like on a
signet ring, the impression being identical although they are two
separate entities. As a figure of speech charakter described a
distinctive mark "impressed" on a person, by which he is distinguished
from others. It is thus a characteristic of that person and was a
Greek idiom for a person's features. The author is saying that
whatever the Divine essence is, Jesus is the perfect expression
Charakter conveys the idea of exact correspondence as when Jesus said
that "He who has seen Me has seen the Father" (Jn14:9) " He who had
seen Jesus had seen the Father because Jesus is the exact
representation, the exact expression of the Father's attributes,
nature, etc so that all that God is, Jesus is, and yet two distinct
Persons.
Paul says Jesus "is the image of the invisible God"
No JW argues with this.
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