Cadge

From Kristos Vocabulary Booster

English

Noun

cadge

1. A circular frame on which cadgers carry hawks for sale.

wrote in message
news:134.05.19.05.365841000@srcbs.org...
>
>
> Stephen M. Adams wrote:
> > "Streamer" writes:
>
> > >
> > >Do you mean faith comes from works, and works comes
from grace?
> >
> > God gives grace which enables us to believe and follow
God, if we
> accept
> > it.
> >
> That grace doesn't merely "enable" but rather constrains
us. Faith is
> the instramental causation, not the efficient causation
nor the
> material causation.

Not true.
2 Corinthians 6:1 We then, as workers together with him,
beseech you also that ye receive not the grace of God in
vain.

Gary



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Bart Goddard wrote:
> gkmcnees@comcast.net wrote:
>
>
>>>>IF saving faith is the same as obeying the 1st commandment then I
>>>>don't have saving faith. But then again, in my estimation, I have
>>>>never met a single person who has kept the 1st commandment. I know
>>>>that Jesus kept it but I know I don't.
>>>
>>>
>>>I don't know anyone who has perfect faith either. That doesn't
>>>mean that the Spirit won't perfect it. I refrain, occasionally,
>>>from stealing, so, occasionally, I obey that commandment.
>>
>>Good for you! Trouble is, God requires perfect obedience, doesn't He?
>
>
> The trouble is, you keep missing points. Why would you
> think that someone's faith has to be "perfect" before they
> are saved? (Answer: Because you think a quality of man is
> a requirement for salvation, quite contrary to the doctrine
> of grace alone.)

Where in the 1st commandment is any promise of salvation?
Or more easily, where is there any promise of salvation in
any of the 10 commandments or the summation of all commandments
Christ gave?

There is none there anywhere.

And the "quality" in man is one of recognition of no quality in oneself.

Just the opposite of what you think.

And just who is missing points, or rather making up what the other
says.

Where do I say that one's FAITH must be perfect?

You raise the question of OBEDIENCE to a command, the 1st commandment.
To be saved! yet!

I am just a little amazed at this.

I see saving faith as no good quality in man, but saving faith
is believing what God promises. And even this is not just any promise,
such as what is promised in Exodus 20:12 Honour thy father and thy
mother: that thy days may be long upon the land which the LORD thy God
giveth thee.

The promise which needs to be believed is that by simply believing
Christ when He says, John 4:10 Jesus answered and said unto her, If
thou knewest the gift of God, and who it is that saith to thee, Give me
to drink; thou wouldest have asked of him, and he would have given thee
living water. One has received everlasting life. There are many
phrasings of the promise of the Gospel.

>>To me God defines saving faith. God gives a promise of everlasting
>>life, not for keeping the 1st commandment, or any commandment, but by
>>receiving Christ by faith is what HE has done. By believing the
>>Gospel.
>
>
> You're saying, and you keep saying, that man is saved "by
> believing the Gospel." "Believing the Gospel" is not Christ's
> action, but man's action. It's very easy to spot works
> righteousness. All one has to do is look at the subjects
> of the active verbs. Is it Jesus doing the saving, or is
> it man?

Believing is not a work, no matter how often you repeat that
it is.

You ask, "Is it Jesus doing the saving, or is it man?"

When a transaction is placed in dollar language one can see the error in
your assertion.

I offer you a billion dollars American. You can either accept it or
reject it. What you are saying is that if you accept it, you somehow are
creating this billion dollars yourself!

I think that everyone (save perhaps yourself and the Calvinists),
understand that the person receiving the gift is not in any way "giving
the gift" or creating the gift.

Now the gift of salvation is infinite whereas the gift of a billion
dollars is just finite.

To receive a FREE GIFT requires no "goodness." It is not by works.
The verse in Rom. 10: I quoted before makes this clear, where it says,

5 For Moses describeth the righteousness which is of the law, That the
man which doeth those things shall live by them. 6 But the
righteousness which is of faith speaketh on this wise, Say not in thine
heart, Who shall ascend into heaven? (that is, to bring Christ down from
above:) 7 Or, Who shall descend into the deep? (that is, to bring up
Christ again from the dead.) 8 But what saith it? The word is nigh
thee, even in thy mouth, and in thy heart: that is, the word of faith,
which we preach;

Now to ascend to heaven or descend to hell to get Christ would be WORK,
but Paul here CONTRASTS SAVING faith to any such work.

Many try to make saving faith some very difficult thing! They pretend to
know things but they are sadly mistaken. I think the BEST example of the
simplicity of saving faith is the interchange of Jesus with the woman at
the well. It cannot be gainsaid.

John 4:10 Jesus answered and said unto her, If thou knewest the gift of
God, and who it is that saith to thee, Give me to drink; thou wouldest
have asked of him, and he would have given thee living water.

Three things are requited: 1) to know the gift of God. This knowledge is
given to man through the work of the Holy Spirit who John 16:8 "And
when He has come, He will convict the world of sin, and of
righteousness, and of judgment:" This means a lot. Conviction of sin,
makes one KNOW that he is a sinner in need of forgiveness. The gift of
God, salvation, is also the gift of imputed righteousness. And the
conviction of judgment is knowledge that one is utterly undone, without
God. 2) Next it is required that one know WHO it is that Christ is: "and
who it is that saith to the." This is THE problem with our friends such
as the JW's and basicallyblue. The refuse to know who Christ is. He has
very well shown and told us who HE is, but they reject God's testimony.
and finally 3) Saving faith. Christ will GIVE "living water" to anyone
who asks, knowing 1&2. Knowing WHO HE IS, and Knowing that they are lost
in sin and condemned.


> If a person looks at himself to see if he's saved, he
> is guaranteed to be disappointed. Either he looks to
> see if he's obeyed the commandments well enough, or
> finds an excuse (like "I didn't mean it" or "It
> wasn't willful") or he looks inside himself to see if
> he has enough faith.

Only when one has a false conception of saving faith, as you evidently
do, since you equate saving faith with obedience of the 1st commandment!

Christ spoke of a tiny faith as quite sufficient. And Paul says that he
IS (NOT WAS) the Chief of sinners!

One needs to look to Christ through His promise of everlasting life in
the true Gospel, and thereby KNOW that he is saved, by God's promise.

Again, we see God telling us that the Calvinist notion is completely
false. For He says, Galatians 3:14 That the blessing of Abraham might
come on the Gentiles through Jesus Christ; that we might receive the
promise of the Spirit through faith.

How do we "receive the promise of the Spirit?" We receive it THROUGH
FAITH. One as competent in logic as yourself should understand the
meaning of THROUGH. We are not first given the promise, "regeneration,"
and then faith! Quite the opposite.

> If we examine our works or our
> faith, we'll find it lacking. "I believe, help Thou
> my unbelief."

Yup! WHAT do you believe????
Do you believe, Revelation 22:17 And the Spirit and the bride say,
Come. And let him that heareth say, Come. And let him that is athirst
come. And whosoever will, let him take the water of life freely.

I think not.

> Rather, the only way to be assured of our salvation is
> to look at Christ on the Cross. A man can say "I know
> I am saved because Christ was crucified for me." His
> salvation is an objective fact.

I agree, so I don't understand what you are arguing about!
First you say, "saving faith is keeping the first commandment,"
and then the above! They are not related.

> If he looks to see if he has faith, then he has no
> assurance and only subjective evidence. This path can
> lead only to dispair.

You evidently don't know what faith is. When you say,
"I know I am saved because Christ was crucified for me."

This IS faith!


Gary

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