Azeri

Gary McNees wrote:

> This IS THE problem. God says that He draws all men.

I like that! If God saves everybody, that is OK with me.

> John 12:32 And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw all men
unto
> me.
>
> Hence your, IRRESISTABLE drawing contradicts this verse,

No, mine does not. But, I can see from your statement that your
understanding of IRRESISTABLE drawing does contradict that verse. We
have different understanding as to what one would mean by the term
"IRRESISTABLE drawing." I kind of like the term, but I have never
heard it used outside this, our dialogue. Perhaps you and I have quite
different understandings of the term.

> for God
> says ALL men are drawn, but it is quite evident that ALL do not come
to
> Christ.
> >
> > > God MUST first regenerate them, and as a RESULT they
> > > then MUST believe.
> >
> > Right! Now you are beginning to understand.
>
> No, I am NOT BEGINNING TO UNDERSTAND. I have known
> Calvinism for the last 30 years.

Those Calvinist you talked to and read about for 30 years, have a right
to their view of Calvinism. I have no intention of trying to defend
their views of Calvinism. I only defend my views. I think that we
should appreciate people as individuals and not just as a group of
clones. I, myself think that it is stupid to say, you must not be an
Southerner, for I have known Southerners for 30 years and they never
said what you said.

> > > This flies in the fact of a multitude of Scriptures which state
that
> > > Life, Justification, Begetting, being born again, remission of
sins,
> > > and all other aspects of salvation come to us THROUGH faith.

I think you are correct in rejecting that form of Calvinism that you
are describing. I think you are wise to do so. However, I myself
would not reject all forms of Calvinism.

> > Not in my eyes, but rather that all those good things do come
through
> > faith, the faith that God chooses to give us. The difference in
our
> > approaches to this, seems to be that you think that you were the
> > generator of your faith. (I said it "seems" to be. Please correct
me if
> > you also think that God gave you your faith.) But, I think that
God is
> > the generator of my faith.
>
> If faith is a "GIFT" then it is a gift which God offers to all men,
and
> one which they can either refuse or accept.

I am sure they think they can.

> The bottom line of your theology,

That is your problem, you do not know what my theology is.

> and I now understand that you are
> a historical Calvinist,

You have described what you think a historical Calvinist believes, and
I don't believe that. Then how can you think that I can be a
historical Calvinist? Your logic is quite strange to me. Why don't
you accept me as an individual rather than try to force me to fit into
your preconceived idea of a Calvinist?

> one which by simple logic, from the T in
> TULIP, believes that God damns the vast multitude of men who
> He could have saved.

Me not TULIP, me George. If TULIP do you wrong, punish TULIP. It is
not good thing to punish George for what TULIP believes. George got
brain, George don't know if TULIP got brain, and if TULIP do have
brain, George not responsible for what TULIP believes.

> The reason that they are damned is because
> God "passed them by." This means that this God is infinitely worse
> than Satan.

Again that is that TULIP fellow's stuff, not George's stuff.

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